Author Topic: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?  (Read 1848 times)

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Offline icebugs

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Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« on: July 24, 2007, 03:19:45 AM »
Can any sifu gv me better clarifying on this ?

Is the NEW K2P replacing the old Utopia 165 ? In term of SQ, is K2P better ?

TQ /92

Offline Zenn

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2007, 12:42:39 PM »
no, and no, utopia higher than k2p, new utopia is called utopia Be.

Offline mnkh27

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2007, 01:01:19 PM »
Yes apparently the K2p upgraded is suppose to better than the old Utopia. But the new range of Utopia BE is another level up.

Offline icebugs

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2007, 01:31:33 PM »
halo mike sifu ! bila mau bawa aku pigi minum in Starbuck ? hehe !

Well, wanna ask, K2P have how many range ? And which range is better than the old utopia ?

If i play active, (Utopia 165W) 4 x 90 is it enough ? 

tq

Offline mnkh27

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2007, 01:53:53 PM »
halo mike sifu ! bila mau bawa aku pigi minum in Starbuck ? hehe !

Well, wanna ask, K2P have how many range ? And which range is better than the old utopia ?

If i play active, (Utopia 165W) 4 x 90 is it enough ? 

tq

Confusing isn't it. The K2P upgraded is only 1 range. Locally there are still a lot of old K2P going for cheaper so don't tersilap buy the wrong ones.

My intelligence tells me there are changes coming up, so I think it's best to wait la.

Seriously, if a good amp gets enough input voltage 90w is plenty. So, whether it is enough depends on quite a few factors.

A simple example would be, if you feed a Brax GE with a HU with weak preouts, the amp's 135w x 4 will still seem like never enough.

Offline kilokhan

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2007, 02:29:39 PM »
If not mistaken Theres a cheaper version of Focal BE comming out. With smaller xover.
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Offline Zenn

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2007, 11:35:11 AM »

If i play active, (Utopia 165W) 4 x 90 is it enough ? 


depends what amp it is....

also if not enuff can always bridge the amp and play passive, hehe...

Offline icebugs

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2007, 02:35:43 PM »
If not mistaken Theres a cheaper version of Focal BE comming out. With smaller xover.

SURE BOH bro ??? hehehe ! Is this the changes talking by Mike ?

Offline icebugs

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2007, 02:38:44 PM »
Confusing isn't it. The K2P upgraded is only 1 range. Locally there are still a lot of old K2P going for cheaper so don't tersilap buy the wrong ones.

My intelligence tells me there are changes coming up, so I think it's best to wait la.

Seriously, if a good amp gets enough input voltage 90w is plenty. So, whether it is enough depends on quite a few factors.

A simple example would be, if you feed a Brax GE with a HU with weak preouts, the amp's 135w x 4 will still seem like never enough.


How do i know the input voltage leh ? I am using 7998r, is it enough ?

2. From what i see from many foreign site, they seems to put many power in like 200W rms to 400w rms to drive it and they say when using low power, the sound sucks, when the more they feed, the SQ is so sweet and even without any tuning yet . Any sifu experience this ?  /166

Offline netken

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2007, 02:40:37 PM »
icebugs, i think 7998 does not need a line driver .. only so called pure decks need line driver qua ...

Offline Zenn

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2007, 05:05:13 PM »
7998 pure deck osso wat (no internal amp), hehe.......but definitely dont need line driver, clean 4v is more than enuff...

yes as always more power the better, but also more important is how clean the power is.    i will take genesis 50W over mohawk 200W anyday....u know what i mean?

Offline netken

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 05:19:17 PM »
last time i use the 7998 also no need line driver ... i think it should not ...

Offline mnkh27

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2007, 05:36:29 PM »
I'm referring to the newer range of alpine decks, after the 7998 era. Weak, weak preouts possibly due to cheaper and smaller power supply. Also, depends on the amp's range of preamp input requirements. Some amps like Brax need up to 1/2 (0.5) volt minimum and some like Abyss only need 0.1 volt. Read up a bit about amp designs, you'll understand better how not to generalize amps based on RMS etc.

cjin: American have muscle cars with huge alternators. They can afford to power up amplifiers of these sort. If you put a big amplifier or multiple amplifiers load on a 70-80A alternator in our typical cars, I doubt it will match the performance of how it sounds in the guai lou's car.

Seriously, there's so many factors including quality of amplifier as pointed out by Rosen korkor. Generally, a good 50w x 2 amp with 200w transformer/power supply section 'can sound better' than a cap abang 100w x 2 amp with ngam ngam 200w ps. So perhaps you can help us further by telling us what amp you're planning to use and why can't the shop advice you accordingly?

Offline kilokhan

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2007, 07:15:57 PM »
SURE BOH bro ??? hehehe ! Is this the changes talking by Mike ?
Yeah I hav seen/read it somewhere but i dun have the URL.
Same spk but change the crossblock(xover) to xover looks like the k2p.
Be Midrange is awsome btw. /92
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Offline icebugs

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2007, 02:47:30 AM »
tq mike sifu ! now i got better pic ! Will do better research on this ! Very tq to ur detail explanation !  /110

TQ to all other bro for ur explanation !  /134

1 more question , now i understand the HU preout, but is the HU build in amp important ? Eg. some HU have 50w, some 25W ?? what is this for ? If i have amp, did this internal amp add up with my external amp ?

Solly for my sily question !  /92

Offline Oldskolboyz

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2007, 11:16:50 AM »
1 more question , now i understand the HU preout, but is the HU build in amp important ? Eg. some HU have 50w, some 25W ?? what is this for ? If i have amp, did this internal amp add up with my external amp ? Solly for my sily question !  /92

To me is not coz we not use it... this feature let us drive Component speaker direct from HU without it we need external amp. coz as we know all speaker need pwr to make it work. All those HU without built-in pre amp did not provide speaker cable output like 7949, 7909, D2, D1, 9255, MX406 & etc laa..     

Offline Zenn

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2007, 12:54:37 PM »
icebugs, the HU internal amp will not be used if u are using RCA cable to connect to outboard amplifiers.

u only use the HU internal amp if u dont have outboard amplifiers, like OEM system where the speakers are connected directly to the HU.

Offline icebugs

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2007, 11:58:23 PM »
7998 pure deck osso wat (no internal amp), hehe.......but definitely dont need line driver, clean 4v is more than enuff...

yes as always more power the better, but also more important is how clean the power is.    i will take genesis 50W over mohawk 200W anyday....u know what i mean?

abang zenn,

solly, some more silly question, let say a mid range spec stated it required 75W RMS , and if u feed it with 100W RMS, will it sound different ? it theoriticaly it shouldnt rite ? Cos the 25W RMSis extra and the speaker only using 75W.

2nd , If a speaker is power hungry, why dun a mohawk 200W perform better than a genesis 50W ? Cos the speaker only need the power to "explore" its character .

3rd , how d i justify clean power ? How do i know thats clean power or not ?

Sorry for asking so much.......learning stage mah !  /92

Offline Zenn

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2007, 10:58:46 AM »
for mids feeding the extra 25W is fine, usual cases feeding it 50% more is also ok, provided the signal is not clipped (amp gain too high).

cap ayam power usually overrated, and high end reputable brands usually underrate their power.  amps built with better components inside will always sound better and will always cost higher.

clean power can roughly be judged by brand reputation and other user reviews of the amp. u can also look at THD or s/n values but manufacturers can lie.

Offline Audiophiliac

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2007, 12:49:32 PM »
no it don't add up; if use external amp the internal amp at HU will not be use at all
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Offline renxun

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2007, 07:09:16 PM »
i noticed that on a scope, cap ayam 4channel although with higher power ratings tends to distort when the amp gain wasnt set to half.... and for the higher end one it will not show distorted signal as early as the not branded one...

this is wat i observe and does this give the meaning of cleaner power? means a high end amp can give clean signal on its peak and a cap ayam wouldnt be able to do so?

Offline Zenn

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Re: Is K2P replace utopia 165W ?
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2007, 10:36:46 AM »
yup.....