Topic: Its complicated...concert hall in your car!

[matrix]

Maybe many of us may have an ICE that sounds like this


Or like this



But does this really the right way to enjoy the song or any song we play in our car.

[zac]

i like the pic... 
to be honest, most of people won't have a really balance staging like what showed in picture
hence some might find staging is a myth or assume competition requirement doesn't sound good
There are too many factor to affect in-car staging... so its not easy at all to achieve it
but if you do, then its actually very nice, im not sure whether this is the right way or not
as this will be a never end dispute, cos almost all icer have their own definition. but to me i like it 

[andoropoi]

Hahaha...look like just the both of u chatting (the forum seems like a buy and sells thread only)...btw I dont think all songs materials will have the same placement for every instrument....thus we cant always replicate the same concert hall as shown in the diagram....

[zac]

Hahaha...look like just the both of u chatting (the forum seems like a buy and sells thread only)...btw I dont think all songs materials will have the same placement for every instrument....thus we cant always replicate the same concert hall as shown in the diagram....

yeah, we are trying very hard to get everyone involve... hehehe

[finalazy84]

dont u think the staging will b quite narrow if it follows like ur 2nd pict? or is it myb bcoz of ur tweeter n mid placement? cos usually the right chanel is somewhere at the right side mirror. same goes to the left one...

btw is that ur car?wat midrange is it?

calling owerrud to join the chat...hehe 

[craziechild]

to me...

i focus more on how the instruments sound supposed to be (tonality some people call it)... but in pursue to that its always my own definition of what it should sound like... i dont really follow the "rule"...

as for staging... i always have an aim to that... as long as the sound doesnt sound like its directly coming from the driver itself... the center is on top of the center air-cond ducts... i am fine with it... of course some depth would be really nice... the "floor" is at the same level as the dashboard surface...

i also come to understand some experienced enthusiast who prefer to-be-in-the-sound-stage... being surrounded by the music... personally havent explore till that far...

cheers!

[matrix]

dont u think the staging will b quite narrow if it follows like ur 2nd pict? or is it myb bcoz of ur tweeter n mid placement? cos usually the right chanel is somewhere at the right side mirror. same goes to the left one...

btw is that ur car?wat midrange is it?

calling owerrud to join the chat...hehe 

Nope..its not my car..I cant have those speaker fitted on the A-pillars or else be sleeping in front of  my house gate .

[matrix]

Anyway...preference of the sound stage depends on individual...but if we want to also ensure not only the driver having the best seat to listen to the concert sound but also the front passenger as well..how is that possible to achieve? Would this way works:

[finalazy84]

to me...

i focus more on how the instruments sound supposed to be (tonality some people call it)... but in pursue to that its always my own definition of what it should sound like... i dont really follow the "rule"...

as for staging... i always have an aim to that... as long as the sound doesnt sound like its directly coming from the driver itself... the center is on top of the center air-cond ducts... i am fine with it... of course some depth would be really nice... the "floor" is at the same level as the dashboard surface...

i also come to understand some experienced enthusiast who prefer to-be-in-the-sound-stage... being surrounded by the music... personally havent explore till that far...
cheers!

hehe I like this one...for me, as long as the tone suit my taste, wif some staging is ok for me...some said, if u want best tonality to suit ur preference, u cant have best staging.dunno how true this is cos some said, if u have the best staging in the car the tonality comes wif it.

Nope..its not my car..I cant have those speaker fitted on the A-pillars or else be sleeping in front of  my house gate .

owh I tot urs...hehe wah wat happen to tat car? as long as u do TA, I dont think the front passenger can have it also. but rear passenger might have it.but the sub might disturb the staging.but in term of tonality, they have some of it.also depends on the tweeter n mids placement.

[andoropoi]

Brian point up there will open u up to many not so positive comments when u go to TT...with some self proclaimed sifu commenting this is wrong that is wrong and so and such hahahaha......

Also with the non availability of SQ shop that doing custom installation here in KK...its is going to be almost impossible to achieve the staging we r all dreaming of...much more with the acute shortage of monie....

[matrix]

owh I tot urs...hehe wah wat happen to tat car? as long as u do TA, I dont think the front passenger can have it also. but rear passenger might have it.but the sub might disturb the staging.but in term of tonality, they have some of it.also depends on the tweeter n mids placement.

I have no idea what happen to that car..

Last time I play TA but now no more. I like the sound and feeling of being in the concert or how to say..feeling like the singer is singing in front of me...staging matters..oh well..sometimes they dont use stage..why worry  about it or should I?

[mnkh27]

To me, soundstage should be seen, not heard. If you are in a concert, you can see the leng lui playing an instrument on the front left and some nerdy guy with long hair on the far right. If you pay attention and look at them (provided you have a nicer seat close upfront), you can watch the energy of the person and performer antics playing their hearts out. That's soundstage to me.

However, if you close your eyes, there isn't much of a soundstage to perceive. You just know the chamber, symphony or just a small band is in front of you and you are enveloped in music goodness - where you can feel the vibe, energy, ambience etc. of the performance.

In the car, there's a big windscreen right in front of you and if you look way past that, it could be a road, cars, trees, wall/building so that does not translate to anything close to a soundstage to me. Reproducing the sound goodness would be my goal. We want to achieve this, as long as the music is not running around the car in a surround sound or diffused manner, making it difficult to enjoy.

If you're into watching musicals or concerts via bluray etc. in your home or MPV, it would be a different story. Then we could agree that a sense of soundstage might be of importance. Having a huge-ass HD screen/monitor/tv along with your sound system would help you recreate that sense of visual soundstage along with strong sound presence.

The next time you hit a jazz bar, or hall performance, try closing your eyes. The listening experience will be different.

[izso]

You guys think too much 

Imho as long as it sounds good to me, then it's a good setup. That's why I have my tweeters in the kick panel and use a cheapass double din player. 

[matrix]

Ever consider the physical height of the person? The soundstage will be different should a shorter guy audit the system or vise versa...right!

[Audiophiliac]

Yup if you keep imagining the soundstage of an concert hall with all those musician then you might hit car, tree, walls and building 

[mnkh27]

If you watch Burlesque, with visually stunning Christina Aguilera removing/putting on her stockings and singing with plenty of emotions, itu lah the kind of soundstage I look forward to.  But if we are listening to a recording, especially one that was done in the studio, there is practically nothing interesting about it. What's more important like craziechild pointed out is the tonality that we must get right first before reaching actual enjoyment. 

[zac]

Ever consider the physical height of the person? The soundstage will be different should a shorter guy audit the system or vise versa...right!

Our ears are not so sensitive with the "height", which means as long as you are sitting on the exact point, the height difference will not/slightly affect the accuracy, however it will change drastically if you move the seat forward or backward, or swing your head left right...

btw, TA its actually a simple technique to gain center image, if a tuner doesnt really know how to play with TA, then he will definitely not getting an accurate tonality which involves much complicating factor and know-how, vice versa if a tuner can find out the perfect tonality which has no cancellation and so on, then staging is just a matter of want or not~

[izso]

If you watch Burlesque, with visually stunning Christina Aguilera removing/putting on her stockings and singing with plenty of emotions,

Mike.. if I had a nice LED screen and this show in bluray - WHAT MUSIC? LOL.. I'd be too bz  at Christina Aguilera's legs.

[KKFAI]

if the 'stereo' recording made the vocal is center, then a standard 'stereo' system should to appear。
even what brand highend equitment if cant get the stereo sound effect, just listen the sound either 1 side, there is nothing 'good sound' can say.
some frequency if cant reach our both ears with same timing,we will feel sharp as higher frequency or booming in lower frequency.

same question:
even the vocal already tuned to center ,but the image is smaller then a ping pong ball(either any music,any recording),the instrument like piano sounds like children masak masak,and the volume is very low cant go loud,then there is no 'sound quality' can say.
the small small image and volumes can easy find in few hundred ringgits table mini combo,plug and play.
(some one told me this effect means very deep sound stage, but i m just feel i m standing out side the room and looking where is the singer)

we are listen a recording cd,pls dont using live feeling compare to a stereo cd.
correct me if i m wrong, and sorry about broken english.