Author Topic: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?  (Read 3494 times)

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Offline Master D

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Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« on: October 06, 2006, 11:22:44 AM »
Hi All,

One of the main things in my system is a lack of good sub blending with the mids and ultimately well defined up front sub bass. What I have done is a lot of tuning in terms of slopes and x.over points with the aid of TA. I know some equipment blend better than others, but is there a general guide on this topic?

I am using an Alpine 9835, should I be messing with the bass focus function ???? I'm kinda stumped, so any feedback would be good!  ;D Thanks!
Long way to go, take it slow, take it easy...

Offline fooyc

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2006, 11:27:32 AM »
MasterD, you tune on your HU or EQ or Passive+Amp ?
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Offline Master D

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2006, 11:28:50 AM »
Hi fooyc,

Everything done on my HU.  :D
Long way to go, take it slow, take it easy...

Offline Newton

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2006, 04:26:44 PM »
Variable phase shift will help and the frequency of your mid and sub must be tune right...Trial and error bro. Have fun tuning... ;)
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Offline fooyc

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2006, 04:49:10 PM »
MasterD,

My worthless 2cents, although I'm not very good in EQ/Freq sort of stuffs.

1st, determine your midbass in highpass (unless u run full range) and knowing your cutoff frequency, should be circulating around 60Hz to 100Hz (I guessing!). Put your sub to lowpass and cutoff frequency approx 60Hz to 80Hz to create the blend of midbass / sub, this is assuming you have no blend issue between your Tw and Mid.

Try to tell. I usually go by ears. If got chance, I can try to listen and we can share notes on how to get it better for your ride.
Music is emotion. It is full of power and rhythm, purity and energy, tones and vibrations, joy and vitality - Heinz Fischer

Offline netken

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2006, 07:59:13 PM »
Master D,

Ur using SW300 right? SEAS should be easily push the Bass to the front worrr??  ??? ???

Offline fooyc

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2006, 09:07:54 PM »
BTW, forgot to mention 1 more item, try off phase the sub as well.
Music is emotion. It is full of power and rhythm, purity and energy, tones and vibrations, joy and vitality - Heinz Fischer

Offline chyanne

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2006, 09:27:31 AM »
hmmm.....  ???
hiromi kataoka

Offline wengweng

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2006, 10:59:33 AM »
Hi All,

One of the main things in my system is a lack of good sub blending with the mids and ultimately well defined up front sub bass. What I have done is a lot of tuning in terms of slopes and x.over points with the aid of TA. I know some equipment blend better than others, but is there a general guide on this topic?

I am using an Alpine 9835, should I be messing with the bass focus function ???? I'm kinda stumped, so any feedback would be good!  ;D Thanks!

Also try different setting on the gain for both the mid and sub besides the xover points. Use Song/music you are familiar with would help also. Start with a fixed setting on the mid, then blend the sub into the midbass. IMHO, good amp will make tuning easier, but that's purely opinion :D.

I tried alpine bass focus function before, but with no good results. Its basically a time alignment function ? I rather separately time align the sub with other drivers

Offline mnkh27

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2006, 10:39:34 PM »
All good points here. My understanding in getting bass up-front is first and foremost the fundamentals. Before working on the crossover points, TA and EQs and processors, I would make sure the following is solved:

1) Good mounting of your midbass drivers, so that you'll get good midbass that will help pull your subbass further front.

2) Sufficient power to your midbass and like what wengweng pointed out, a good amplifier for the subs too. Clean power and headroom is what we're seeking. Not so much of power ratings.

3) Solve all rattling problems from the rear, including C-pillars and rear parcel shelf.

4) Make sure you open a hole somewhere at the rear shelves to allow the bass to get into the cabin.

5) Make sure that bloody subwoofer enclosure is not leaking. If not you'll be more prone to getting mechanical noises from the subwoofer driver.

and finally,

6) If you can afford it, a good and fast sub that can keep up with the front mids.

Offline fooyc

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2006, 07:30:08 AM »
Good point mike and weng!  ;D
Music is emotion. It is full of power and rhythm, purity and energy, tones and vibrations, joy and vitality - Heinz Fischer

Offline Master D

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2006, 09:36:40 PM »
Quote
Posted on: October 06, 2006, 04:30:56 PMPosted by: Newton 
Insert Quote
Variable phase shift will help and the frequency of your mid and sub must be tune right...Trial and error bro. Have fun tuning... 


Hi Newton,

What do you mean by variable phase shift? Yeah I've been "trial and erroring" for the past 9 months...lol....I've made incremental improvements, just looking for more...hehe!
Long way to go, take it slow, take it easy...

Offline Master D

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2006, 09:42:18 PM »
Quote
Posted on: October 06, 2006, 04:53:22 PMPosted by: fooyc 
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MasterD,

My worthless 2cents, although I'm not very good in EQ/Freq sort of stuffs.

1st, determine your midbass in highpass (unless u run full range) and knowing your cutoff frequency, should be circulating around 60Hz to 100Hz (I guessing!). Put your sub to lowpass and cutoff frequency approx 60Hz to 80Hz to create the blend of midbass / sub, this is assuming you have no blend issue between your Tw and Mid.


Mids and tweets are in prefect harmony..lol

I've tried doing an overlap, but its not helping, instead I make it worse. I guess its cabin/car dependant because I have seen/heard it done with great results in other cars.  :-\

btw, no such thing as worthless comments.... ;) I appreciate all feedback and suggestions!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2006, 10:01:22 PM by Master D »
Long way to go, take it slow, take it easy...

Offline Master D

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2006, 09:44:39 PM »
Quote
Posted on: October 06, 2006, 08:03:25 PMPosted by: netken 
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Master D,

Ur using SW300 right? SEAS should be easily push the Bass to the front worrr??   

 
Kenneth,

Nope, due to cost matters, I have yet to try the SW300. I'm using a IDQ 15.... ;D

Long way to go, take it slow, take it easy...

Offline Master D

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Re: Up Front Sub Bass - How is it attained?
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2006, 09:45:42 PM »
Quote
Posted by: fooyc 
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BTW, forgot to mention 1 more item, try off phase the sub as well. 


Hi fooyc,

Yup did that too....
Long way to go, take it slow, take it easy...